Суд над Бхагавад-гитой / Attempt to ban Bhagavad-gita

http://www.prabhupada.org.uk/articles1/irm_deviant.htm

Srila Prabhupada's Silence Confirms His Poisoning and the IRM Deviation.


The IRM have written various papers in which they infiltrate materially concocted ideas into Srila Prabhupada's clear statements about someone poisoning him. The goal of this paper is defend the transcendental words of His Divine Grace from such offensive interpretations, expose this deviant IRM cult and thus help any unfortunate souls who are a member of it.

Let us start by looking at Srila Prabhupada's clear words then the IRM's deviant interpretations of them.



Bhavananda: Prabhupada was complaining of mental distress this morning also.

Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: What was that all about mental distress?

Prabhupada: Hm, hm.

Kaviraja [Doctor]: Say it. Say it.

Prabhupada: That same thing … that someone has poisoned me.

Kaviraja: Look, this is the thing, that maybe some rakshasa (demon) gave him poison…

Devotee: Someone gave him poison here.

Kaviraja: Caru Swami, some rakshasa might have given it, maybe so. It's not impossible. Someone gave poison to Sankaracharya for six months before he started to suffer. [The poisoner] ground glass, you know, bottle glass, and mixed it with his food. So what happened to him [the poisoner] as a result was that after twelve months, his entire body was covered with leprosy. So, you have to suffer the results of your actions. But whatever medicine I have given will, if it has an effect the poison will not be able to stay. That is guaranteed. Whatever it has affected, it will not be able to stay. But we cannot now catch the fellow who gave the poison. No matter what reason his kidneys are bad, whether from disease, planets or poison, my medicine will counteract it."

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada was thinking that someone had poisoned him.

Adri-dharana: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: That was the mental distress.

Adri-dharana: Yes.

Kaviraja: If he says that, they must definitely be some truth to it

Tamala Krsna: What did Kaviraja just say?

Bhakti-caru: He said that when Srila Prabhupada was saying that, there must be some truth behind it.

Tamala Krsna: Tssh. (People all speaking at once)

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, Sastriji says that there must be some truth to it if you say that. So who is it that has poisoned?

[13 second pause, Srila Prabhupada remains silent and does not answer]

[ S.P.Room Conversation November 10, 1977, Vrndavana



I.R.M. CONCOCTION: Thus when Srila Prabhupada states 'someone has poisoned me', he is simply identifying the discussion which has led to the 'mental distress'. The talk on the previous day, as we have seen, was indeed in reference to 'someone has poisoned me'. Thus the phrase, 'someone has poisoned me', because it is prefaced with 'that same discussion', is used simply to refer back to the previous discussions in question. A previous discussion in which someone else had spoken of Srila Prabhupada being poisoned, or more accurately, displaying the symptoms of someone being poisoned.

In other words:

1. Srila Prabhupada is asked a question - 'what was that all about, mental distress'?

2. Srila Prabhupada answers initially - 'that same discussion'.

3. He then clarifies which discussion he is referring to by adding - 'that someone has poisoned me'.

Thus though Srila Prabhupada does speak the words - 'someone has poisoned me' - he only states them to identify the series of talks, which were to do with Srila Prabhupada being poisoned - but in which Srila Prabhupada himself never states that someone has poisoned him.

Note: Tamal Krsna asks Srila Prabhupada a very clear question "So who is it that has poisoned?" He doesn't ask "Have you being poisoned ?" because that is already cleared by Srila Prabhupada's statement "That same thing … that someone has poisoned me" The question now is who has poisoned.

Therefore Srila Prabhupada's silence means he's accepting what Tamal says.

If we remain silent, then whatever he says, that means we are accepting.

[S.P. Discussion about Guru Maharaji August 13, 1973, Paris]

Note: If Srila Prabhupada's statement "That same thing … that someone has poisoned me" was misunderstood by the devotees at that time and Srila Prabhupada was only referring to a previous discussion as the bogus I.R.M. have materially concocted, then when Srila Prabhupada was asked a very pointed question by Tamal namely "So who is it that has poisoned?" why did he not say "No not that i am poisoned, i was only referring to the previous discussion in which i said it was possible" ???

Srila Prabhupada was silent because he agreed with what they had understood, as one devotee immediately stated "Someone gave him poison here."

Therefore, SRILA PRABHUPADA CONFIRMS AGAIN "SOMEONE HAS POISONED ME" BY REMAINING SILENT AND NOT ANSWERING TAMAL.

If we theoretically accept that Srila Prabhupada was identifying the previous discussion in which he said: "Someone says that I've been poisoned. It is possible" this would mean (if we accept the I.R.M's reasoning on why Srila Prabhupada uses the words "Someone has poisoned me") that Srila Prabhupada wasn't intelligent enough to use the correct words.

Visitor: Christians take this commandment to be applicable to human beings, not to animals.
Srila Prabhupada: That would mean that Christ was not intelligent enough to use the right word: murder. There is killing, and there is murder. Murder refers to human beings. Do you think Jesus was not intelligent enough to use the right word--murder--instead of the word killing? Killing means any kind of killing, and especially animal killing. If Jesus had meant simply the killing of humans, he would have used the word murder.

[SSR Chapter Four Understanding Krsna and Christ :Krsna, Christos, Christ]

Note: Do the IRM think that Srila Prabhupada wasn't intelligent enough to use the right words?

Srila Prabhupada uses the word HAS poisoned me. If the issue of Srila Prabhupada's poisoning was still only a possibility, His Divine Grace would have said something like " That same thing … that someone says I've been poisoned" or " That same thing … the talk of someone poisoning me"

Therefore even accepting the I.R.M. concoction that Srila Prabhupada is identifying the previous discussion, he is now clearing the doubts by saying "Someone HAS poisoned me". When Tamal clearly understanding this truth asks Prabhupada "So who is it that has poisoned?" Prabhupada's silence not only confirms he is in agreement with what they have understood [Someone has poisoned Prabhupada... that's clear, so the next question is WHO HAS POISONED???] but simultaneously reveals the poison giver. The following quote will clarify this:

Guest (6): Swamiji, you have seen Krsna?
Prabhupada: What do you think? We are all rascals, blindly following? Do you think like that? Then why I have not seen? Why do you ask this? If we are acting for Krsna, do you mean to say that we are following blindly? Do you think like that? What is your opinion? If we have not seen Krsna, then how we are acting for Krsna? Hm? What is your idea? We are all fools, that without seeing the master we are acting? Do you think like that? Why don't you answer? This is foolish question. How one can serve a master without seeing the master? Is it a fact that without seeing the master one is serving?

[S.P. Morning Walk December 5, 1976, Hyderabad]


So we can answer poison giver Tamal by using the above:

"What do you think Tamal ?..... Why do you ask this? .....What is your opinion?..... What is your idea? .......Why don't you answer? This is foolish question because the answer is OBVIOUS !!!



THE RAVANA WILL KILL AND THE RAMA WILL KILL.

BETTER TO BE KILLED BY RAMA. EH?

In the next quote we find the final and irrefutable evidence from Prabhupada's mouth confirming his killing by his Judas disciples [Ravana followers] Even the IRM haven't tried to mess with this because IT'S JUST TOO STRONG AND CLEAR CUT.



Jagadisa: Srila Prabhupada, can you tell us why you want to go on the parikrama? [Visisting holy places]
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (break)
Prabhupada: ...good paddy.
Tamala Krsna: This seems like suicide, Srila Prabhupada, this program. It seems to some of us like it's suicidal.
Prabhupada: And this is also suicidal.
Tamala Krsna: Hm. Prabhupada said, "And this is also suicide." Now you have to choose which suicide.
Prabhupada: The Ravana will kill and Rama will kill. Better to be killed by Rama. Eh? That Marica--if he does not go to mislead Sita, he'll be killed by Ravana; and if he goes to be killed by Rama, then it is better.

[S.P.Room Conversation November 10, 1977, Vrndavana]



Now, those who, those who are present here, those who have knowledge of logic, analogy... Analogy is possible when the two things are... When there are greatest number of similarities of two things, then there can be analogy. Otherwise there is no question of ana..., analogy. Just like if I say, "Oh, this lady's face is just like moon," now there must be some similarity in this face and the moon. As the moon is bright and a very beautiful looker, therefore this face must be very beautiful and very bright. But if the face is ugly, how can I compare with this moon? So whenever we make some analogy, there must be points, greater number of points of similarity.

[Bhagavad-gita Lecture, 2.13, New York, March 11, 1966]

Note: When there are greatest number of similarities of two things, then there can be analogy. Otherwise there is no question of ana..., analogy. Just like Srila Prabhupada says, "And this is also suicidal...The Ravana will kill and Rama will kill. Better to be killed by Rama. Eh? That Marica--if he does not go to mislead Sita, he'll be killed by Ravana; and if he goes to be killed by Rama, then it is better." now there must be some similarity between Srila Prabhupada and Marica. As Marica would be killed by the demon Ravana or the Supreme Lord Rama, therefore Srila Prabhupada [at least externally] must be in the same position of being killed by a demon(s) or by the Supreme Lord. But if Srila Prabhupada by staying in the room was being cared for nicely by sincere disciples how could he compare himself to Marica being killed by the demon Ravana? So whenever we make some analogy, there must be points, greater number of points of similarity



But not directly, "demons are poisoning me to death.

Better to be amongst my real disciples on Parikrama

and die there " but you can say in a gentlemanly way,

"The Ravana will kill and Rama will kill. Better

to be killed by Rama. Eh? " You see?



So asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase. But nanusocanti panditah: "One who is actually learned, he does not take very much care of these things." That means "You are a fool." That means "You are a fool." It is called parenthesis, or... That "A pandita, a learned man, does not do like this." It is called... What is the English? I do not remember now. That if I speak that "Sometimes, from my home, this thing was stolen, and the man who stole, he looked like you." But not directly, "You are the man who had stolen my property," but you can say in a gentlemanly way, "He looked like you." You see?

[Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, 1.16.17, Los Angeles, January 12, 1974]



One should select a spiritual master in that way and as soon as the spiritual master is selected, one should remain always a fool, although he may not be a fool, but the better position is like that. So Arjuna, instead of remaining on the same level as friend and friend, voluntarily accepting to remain a fool before Krsna. And Krsna is accepting that "You are a fool. You're talking just like a learned man, but you are a fool because you are lamenting on a matter which no learned man laments." That means "A fool laments," that "You are a fool. Therefore you are a fool." It is in a round about way... Just like, what is called in logic? Parenthesis? Or something like that, called. Yes. That if I say that "You look like that person who stole my watch," that means "You look like a thief." Similarly, (chuckles) Krsna, in a round about way, says that "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like learned man, but you are lamenting on a subject matter which no learned man laments."

[Bhagavad-gita Lecture, 2.8-12, Los Angeles, November 27, 1968]



Note: In a gentlemanly way Srila Prabhupada says "The Ravana will kill and Rama will kill. Better to be killed by Rama." That means he is saying it is better to be amongst his real disciples on Parikrama (good paddy - where he will regain his health or as his Divine Grace clearly said "But i think i shall be cured") and die there than stay with demons and be poisoned to death.

In other words with this RAMA RAVANA statement alone Srila Prabhupada is saying he is been killed by demons.

Only other similar heartless demons with no love for Srila Prabhupada cannot hear him saying this!!!



But not directly, "demons are poisoning me to death. "

but you can say in a gentlemanly way, "These kind of

symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned." You see?



Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? You said before that you..., that it is said that you were poisoned?
Prabhupada: No. These kind of symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned. He said like that, not that I am poisoned.
Tamala Krsna: Did anyone tell you that, or you just know it from before?
Prabhupada: I read something.
Tamala Krsna: Ah, I see. That's why actually we cannot allow anyone else to cook for you.
Prabhupada: That is good.
Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja was telling that one acarya, Sankaracarya, of the Sankaracarya line--this was a while ago--he was poisoned to death. Since that time, none of the acaryas or the gurus of the Sankaracarya line will ever take any food cooked except by their own men.
Prabhupada: My Guru Maharaja also.
Tamala Krsna: Oh. You, of course, have been so merciful that sometimes you would take prasada cooked by so many different people.
Prabhupada: That should be stopped.

[S.P. Room Conversation, November 8, 1977, Vrndavana]



Note: The killers from the APA ISKCON cult have written a book to defend themselves named "Not that i am poisoned". This statement by Srila Prabhupada is from his answer to Tamal's question "You said before that you..., that it is said that you were poisoned?"

Srila Prabhupada corrects this misunderstanding of Tamal by saying "No. These kind of symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned. He said like that, not that I am poisoned." So the person said Srila Prabhupada had the symptoms of a poisoned man, but he didn't say Srila Prabhupada was poisoned. "He said like that, not that I am poisoned." Yes he said like that in a gentlemanly way, not that he said directly Srila Prabhupada was poisoned.

Therefore the demons attempt to keep their followers in ignorance of their crime is simply cheating.



THAT IS THE WAY OF FALSEHOOD

Prabhupada: That is the way of falsehood. If once you speak something false, then to protect that falsehood you have to take to so many other falsehoods. This is the way of falsehood.
Paramahamsa: One lie leads to another. [S.P. Morning Walk, June 2, 1975, Honolulu]

Note: So the I.R.M. have taken to the falsehood of preaching this mundane interpretation to Srila Prabhupada's clear transcendental words. "Someone has poisoned me" to protect the original falsehood, that of associating with and reforming an apa-sampradaya.

In the parampara system, the instructions taken from the bona fide spiritual master must also be based on revealed Vedic scriptures. One who is in the line of disciplic succession cannot manufacture his own way of behavior. There are many so-called followers of the Vaisnava cult in the line of Caitanya Mahaprabhu who do not scrupulously follow the conclusions of the sastras, and therefore they are considered to be apa-sampradaya, which means "outside of the sampradaya." Some of these groups are known as aula, baula, kartabhaja, neda, daravesa, sani sahajiya, sakhibheki, smarta, jata-gosani, ativadi, cudadhari and gauranga-nagari. In order to follow strictly the disciplic succession of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, one should not associate with these apa-sampradaya communities.

( C.C. Adi 7.48)

Note: Srila Prabhupada instructs us not associate with apa-sampradaya communities such as tamal's APA-ISKCON. A community which he described as a sinister movement, full of rogues who are the most dangerous elements in human society. (see S.P. Letter to Hansaduta and Sri Isopanisad Mantra12)

Srila Prabhupada says avoid - I.R.M says associate with and reform. The Original opinion different from the spiritual master's!!!



"Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master

is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted

ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation."



TRANSLATION: Some of the disciples strictly accepted the orders of the acarya, and others deviated, independently concocting their own opinions under the spell of daivi-maya.



PURPORT: This verse describes the beginning of a schism. When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas.



TRANSLATION: The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless.



PURPORT: Here is the opinion of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami. Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless. [C.C. Adi Lila 12.9-10]

Note: So the opinion of Srila Prabhupada is "In order to follow strictly the disciplic succession of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, one should not associate with these apa-sampradaya communities." and the Bogus I.R.M. have an opinion different from the opinion of Srila Prabhupada - That is useless. I.R.M. cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is their first deviation.

So the opinion of Srila Prabhupada is "Someone has poisoned me" and the Bogus I.R.M. have an opinion different from the opinion of Srila Prabhupada - That is useless. I.R.M. cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is their second deviation to hide the first as no sane human being is going to accept that you can reform a society of Srila Prabhupada killers!!!

Even if the sinister movement is "reformed" and accepts the ritvik system does this acceptance of a formal system of management change the heart of souls who have being worshipping, following and supporting Srila Prabhupada's killers (the most severe offenders) ???

Such souls have being given a cheater guru by the Lord in the heart because they are not at all sincere. So even if these souls are told that Prabhupada is their Guru because he implemented a ritvik system does this make them immediately sincere and qualified to accept Prabhupada as guru?????

All the genuine devotees have long left APA-ISKCON and are now safety talking direct shelter of Srila Prabhupada and avoiding the apa - sampradaya community as His Divine Grace instructed. The I.R.M.'s policy is to bring back the sincere souls to the association of the members of the sinister movement. This is their clear deviation and offense to Srila Prabhupada.

Neophyte devotees cannot discriminate between a pseudo devotee (Kali chela) and a sincere soul seeking Srila Prabhupada's shelter. But by Divine arrangement and mercy, such vision for the neopyte is made easy. Those who accept a bogus guru in APA-ISKCON are pseudo devotees and those who accept Prabhupada are a little sincere.

So the I.R.M. is merely tamal's movement in another form, trying to bring the stray sheep (those souls who are struggling to realize that it is the Lord's kindness that such a cheating society based on envy of Srila Prabhupada was taken away from them.) back to the sinister movement. These sheep being attached to such cheating from time immemorial and unable appreciate the nectar of real association of Srila Prabhupada through his vani, are called back by Maya to the path of hell with her sweet I.R.M. call. "Soon everything will be fine in APA-ISKCON. They will reform and accept the ritvik system and then you can enjoy your friendship, society and love - mutual praising society again"



CONCLUSION


I.R.M. FIRST FALSEHOOD = ASSOCIATE WITH AND REFORM THE PRABHUPADA KILLERS (APA - SAMPRADAYA)



I.R.M. SECOND FALSEHOOD TO COVER THE FIRST = WRITE A PAPER TO SAY THAT SRILA PRABHUPADA NEVER MADE A DIRECT STATEMENT THAT HE WAS POISONED